Something with the economy based auto tiering is currently not working at all ( Div cards, Essences and Omens )

[TerohsLab]

I was adjusting my filter for a new build today and by pure chance looked at div cards and something isn't working at all.

Div cards : In C+D tier half the cards are worth over 5-20c. Many others are also over the 1c threshold you would expect from that tier.
Essences : Due to currently found recomb tech, half the essences in the ninja top 10 are mutterings and filterblade isn't updating their tier at all. Those are like 10-15c a pop. I would argue even screamings not showing at 2-3 per is a mistake in tiering.
Omens : Lower impacted, but still seems weird to not see 3c omens highlighted.

There is also some strange looking tiering in uniques, incubators and other fragments, but that might just be market volatility.

I know you did something in week 2-3 of the league when div went to the moon, but it seems fairly stable at 300:1 now, so maybe that logic is just insanely overreacting.

As for the mutterings, i assume you had hard ceilings in place .. but those are not longer necessary with the currency exchange.

Im on SC trade non-stable filter. I can share my filter if you need.

[NeverSinkDev]

I've reviewed the situation and done some adjustments.

I'd appreciate if you can review how the situation is tomorrow and see if it feels better for you.

PS:

Muttering essences are untouched by that for now, allowing all muttering essences to get tiered also enables several obvious mistakes. This will take a couple days to figure out and I want to observe the trend first as the VOLUME of trends is really low (just ~1-2k chaos/hour going through low-essence deals/hour, so the moment they're tiered higher, it'll smite the price to 0 again, but will expose the errors to the users)

[TerohsLab]

Appreciate the quick response. Are those changes already on filterblade? Esp. for the C+D div cards?

The muttering stuff is not just a fluke tho. I think SushiWide used it in his kboc shield craft ( think he has a video about the craft, but also can prolly ask him in the smoky backrooms ).

The super tldr is that the lowest essence gives you a NOT "of the essence" mod. So it can force non native mods on donor bases for recomb bullshittery.

I can see GGG changing this next league, but for everyone trying to craft their own kboc shield, they would need those mutterings.

I expect this to be a small portion of the wealthy playerbase, but i've already heard from friends that they are waiting for their crafts until their buy orders fill so they dont nuke the market.

And as a general filter, i feel like you are not the one to judge to hide a 15c item. That should be on the user.

Also do mutterings even drop in T16 essences? I genuinely dont know.

[NeverSinkDev]

Now it is.

I've also removed the safeguards for the most demanded low tier essences, while leaving most others still anchored.

[TerohsLab]

I was about to call you out for market manipulation and possibly be in the jenny poo files.

Thank you for the update and proving me wrong.

[TerohsLab]

while leaving most others still anchored.

Also what is "others" ?

[NeverSinkDev]

Also what is "others" ?

Any Muttering/Whispering that didn't hit ~2.5c (yet).

Due to the low volume it's absolutely trivial to manipulate their market and cause the poe.ninja to treat them as highly valuable. This is why for muttering/whispering I've previously had the eco-tiering disabled. This issue happened a lot with div cards in the past, resulting some tinking for no good reasons.

I'll review alle low-tiers essences again tomorrow and the following days and will progressively add more to the tiering if others will rise in price as well.

I was about to call you out for market manipulation and possibly be in the jenny poo files.

It's a game of whack-a-mole, where I find increasingly elaborate ways to filter outliers and the PoE meta evolves in increasingly crazy ways. This league alone of the top of my head: Maven invitations are worth 1c, Iron Flasks 10d+ and now low-tier essences are rising.

[TerohsLab]

Non of the C+D div card retiering seemed to have worked.

Half of them are still over 10c and hidden in most filters.

[NeverSinkDev]

Can you provide concrete examples?

Keep in mind that many prices are not 'actual' prices people are willing to pay for, but instead low-volume anomalies.

[TerohsLab]

Half of the cards in C+D.

Is there a way to share the filter link without personal information? I could just raw copy paste it, but not sure how useful that would be.

Also the "actual prices" discussion is kind of a paradox in the times and days of faustus. And for muttering essences : the volume is low, because people who want to use those are slow buying them, because otherwise it would crash the market.

And there is not enough supply, because the most popular filter in poe isn't showing them.

[SuperJelle]

Can you provide concrete examples?

Keep in mind that many prices are not 'actual' prices people are willing to pay for, but instead low-volume anomalies.

I believe it's due to older filters being carried forward. These are examples of high value div card I've had to manually update from trash tier (when I make a brand new one they are correctly sorted): The Silly Boy (horned scarabs), The Tinkerer's Table (fossils), Avian Pursuit (Vivid Lifeforce), Dementophobia (delirium orbs)

[NeverSinkDev]

Can you provide concrete examples?
Keep in mind that many prices are not 'actual' prices people are willing to pay for, but instead low-volume anomalies.

I believe it's due to older filters being carried forward. These are examples of high value div card I've had to manually update from trash tier (when I make a brand new one they are correctly sorted): The Silly Boy (horned scarabs), The Tinkerer's Table (fossils), Avian Pursuit (Vivid Lifeforce), Dementophobia (delirium orbs)

All cards you mentioned are in C or B tier right now, so that should be fine. They may have been in a lower tier at a time though.

[NeverSinkDev]

Half of the cards in C+D.

Is there a way to share the filter link without personal information? I could just raw copy paste it, but not sure how useful that would be.

Also the "actual prices" discussion is kind of a paradox in the times and days of faustus. And for muttering essences : the volume is low, because people who want to use those are slow buying them, because otherwise it would crash the market.

And there is not enough supply, because the most popular filter in poe isn't showing them.

Please provide individual cards, where you think the tiering is currently wrong.

For every card provided, I have to review what kind of factors lead to their current tiering such as exchange prices, volume, history, derived (card result) and several other factors.

This takes considerable time, so I'd like to limit it to concrete issues.

[SuperJelle]

Can you provide concrete examples?
Keep in mind that many prices are not 'actual' prices people are willing to pay for, but instead low-volume anomalies.

I believe it's due to older filters being carried forward. These are examples of high value div card I've had to manually update from trash tier (when I make a brand new one they are correctly sorted): The Silly Boy (horned scarabs), The Tinkerer's Table (fossils), Avian Pursuit (Vivid Lifeforce), Dementophobia (delirium orbs)

All cards you mentioned are in C or B tier right now, so that should be fine. They may have been in a lower tier at a time though.

I think you misunderstand. If you have an old filter that gets automatically updated to the newest version on filterblade the tiering (at least in those cases) does not get updated/fixed. You have to make a new filter to get the updated tiering (despite the fact that I have never previously touched the cards in question).

I was not aware this was the case. I assumed I could bring my few minor adjustments forward through version updates and have the underlying filter be updated and adjusted automatically. OP claiming that there are so many mistakes in the filter makes it likely that they are in the same boat as me.

[NeverSinkDev]

Can you provide concrete examples?
Keep in mind that many prices are not 'actual' prices people are willing to pay for, but instead low-volume anomalies.

I believe it's due to older filters being carried forward. These are examples of high value div card I've had to manually update from trash tier (when I make a brand new one they are correctly sorted): The Silly Boy (horned scarabs), The Tinkerer's Table (fossils), Avian Pursuit (Vivid Lifeforce), Dementophobia (delirium orbs)

All cards you mentioned are in C or B tier right now, so that should be fine. They may have been in a lower tier at a time though.

I think you misunderstand. If you have an old filter that gets automatically updated to the newest version on filterblade the tiering (at least in those cases) does not get updated/fixed. You have to make a new filter to get the updated tiering (despite the fact that I have never previously touched the cards in question).

I was not aware this was the case. I assumed I could bring my few minor adjustments forward through version updates and have the underlying filter be updated and adjusted automatically. OP claiming that there are so many mistakes in the filter makes it likely in the same boat as me.

That's not the case.

Whenever you load an old filter on FilterBlade through the save/load system the filter DOES get it's tiering updated.

There are 2 exceptions:

1. Stable filters stay stable as the name implies, only economy-based filters change their tiering
2. If you have retiered or locked those cards (manually or through the economy-tiering tools) the card will 'stick' to the new tier. Your decisions have priority over 'my' tiering.

However, anything else does get updated.

Example below:

In the screenshot I've moved the bound by flame card manually (blue border). Everything else gets updated.

[SuperJelle]

Ahh yes I see, when I choose new filter it automatically gave me the econ-based version. The issues are in the stable version. It has all the cards I mentioned in the C+D tier which is hidden on higher strictness.